Language and thought
Feb. 27th, 2012 11:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I feel silly for not really pondering this question before, and for not having a ready answer to it, but: do we think in language?
A few days ago my friend who lives in Japan send me a video he'd taken, during part of which he can be heard talking to himself in Japanese. (He opens a door in a prospective apartment and says, "Ah, toire.") I was curious whether he was talking to himself in Japanese as a way to practice the language or because he actually thinks in Japanese. Did he open the door and think "toire," or did he think "bathroom" and then translate?
Or are those both wrong? Did he open the door and have a concept or thought or feeling of bathroomness which is only then translated into a word at all, such that the concept of "thinking in English" or "thinking in Japanese" is meaningless in the first place?
I feel certain that several readers of this blog will have learned or thought about this before. I am finding myself flummoxed by not being able to work out whether I think in English or not.
Certainly some words seem to be very closely tied to the experience that they convey. Sometimes Zoe briefly wakes up between sleep cycles and is angry at the prospect of waking up. (Join the club, kid.) When she was tiny, she used to just cry in those moments. Now she says "NO!" or sometimes "Uh-oh." (Once she woke up as I was moving her from the car seat to her stroller and, with her eyes still closed, she both said and signed "All done" -- clearly meaning "Cut it out, Mama.") It has been interesting to see that, even when she's not fully conscious, a word rather than a cry has become her instinctive expression of a strong feeling. But is that the same as thinking in language, or is language always layered on top of the feeling or thought itself?
A few days ago my friend who lives in Japan send me a video he'd taken, during part of which he can be heard talking to himself in Japanese. (He opens a door in a prospective apartment and says, "Ah, toire.") I was curious whether he was talking to himself in Japanese as a way to practice the language or because he actually thinks in Japanese. Did he open the door and think "toire," or did he think "bathroom" and then translate?
Or are those both wrong? Did he open the door and have a concept or thought or feeling of bathroomness which is only then translated into a word at all, such that the concept of "thinking in English" or "thinking in Japanese" is meaningless in the first place?
I feel certain that several readers of this blog will have learned or thought about this before. I am finding myself flummoxed by not being able to work out whether I think in English or not.
Certainly some words seem to be very closely tied to the experience that they convey. Sometimes Zoe briefly wakes up between sleep cycles and is angry at the prospect of waking up. (Join the club, kid.) When she was tiny, she used to just cry in those moments. Now she says "NO!" or sometimes "Uh-oh." (Once she woke up as I was moving her from the car seat to her stroller and, with her eyes still closed, she both said and signed "All done" -- clearly meaning "Cut it out, Mama.") It has been interesting to see that, even when she's not fully conscious, a word rather than a cry has become her instinctive expression of a strong feeling. But is that the same as thinking in language, or is language always layered on top of the feeling or thought itself?
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Date: 2012-02-28 04:57 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2012-02-28 02:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 07:35 pm (UTC)I certainly usually think in English if I'm thinking in language at all; very occasionally, I will try head-narrating in French, as sort of a "how much of this language do I remember." I don't think it's thought-to-English-to-French, but it is thought-to-not-very-good-French, with lots of verb tense revising.
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Date: 2012-03-01 12:37 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2012-02-28 02:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-28 01:42 pm (UTC)I would bet that Zoe responded verbally because her brain is currently putting so much effort into processing and learning language, that the chain reaction that happened was something like "What, what's going on" ==> [ears ans nose indicate] "Mommy is moving me" ==> [verbal center] "What's our response for that?" ==> "Cut it out, Mama." ==> "All done."
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Date: 2012-02-28 06:04 pm (UTC)the most insightful things i've learned about this come from anecdotes: one being jill bolte taylor's story of having a stroke and losing her language centers, the other being some podcast i heard about a man who wasn't raised with language describing what it was like to finally acquire it (i can't remember enough about it to find a source, darn).
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Date: 2012-02-29 12:53 pm (UTC)The researchers in this episode (one of whom runs The Baby Lab at Harvard) believes that language is what form synaptic connections in the brain to allow humans to relate objects/ideas/emotions to other objects/ideas/emotions. If I remember correctly, their example was that in a lab rat (or, a toddler) searching for a ball in a room with a spatial benchmark (I think they used one colored wall in a square room of otherwise white walls), that lab rat/toddler can have a symbolic or language-based notion of "ball" and of "colored wall."
However, to spatially locate that ball, it requires language of direction in relation to another benchmark ("the ball is left of the colored wall." One of the psychologists (Spelke, I think) concludes that rats/toddlers actually cannot think as a result of not having language to connect those two concepts.
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Date: 2012-02-29 05:45 am (UTC)Now... I think there are non-verbal thoughts and verbal thoughts. My most conscious thoughts are also verbal - almost subvocalized. Thinking consciously about something I don't have a word for is harder. I think in English.
However, some of my thoughts are not verbalized. They exist, but I have to chase around for words if I want to make them verbal. This is where poetry happens.
Some of my earliest memories are pre-verbal, and they're very different in quality than later memories. Partly that's just about age, I think, but some of it is about remembering the thoughts I was having without words...
Fun to think about, certainly. :)
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Date: 2012-02-29 10:17 pm (UTC)I think I mostly think in words, but given the number of times that I struggle to find the right word during an emotional situation, I clearly also have a lot of nonverbal thoughts; I think in pictures and emotional feelings and tactile sensations. Most of the conscious and deliberate thoughts are in words, but I have a lot of other kinds of thought, too.
I have said, half-joking but also half-seriously, that I am terrible about remembering names but I can nearly always remember what somebody was wearing. I think that that has something to do with thinking in words vs. thinking in pictures. A person's name is a word, but what a person was wearing is a picture, a vivid and colorful and sometimes very detailed picture. It is often easier for me to remember the picture than the word, which has some significant disadvantages because most people are not always wearing the same outfit.
My earliest memory (that I have a date for) was from when I was about three, so I don't know if I have memories of my pre-verbal thoughts. But that memory was also much more visual than linguistic, now that I think about it. I was in a hospital room with my family after my mom had given birth to my brother Isaac, and I was very upset about the color of the wallpaper in the hospital room. My family thought that I was upset about having a younger brother, but the brother was a minor character in this memory. That olive green plaid wallpaper, on the other hand, was very important and very vivid in my memory and very ugly.
Also, I have occasionally had dreams in French or in Sign Language, but only when I have been studying the language very intently. Most of my dreams are heavily nonverbal, but then if I try to describe them, I have to make them verbal, of course.
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Date: 2012-03-01 09:23 pm (UTC)As a native bilingual of two rather unrelated languages, I KNOW that the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is true, at least in the soft form (although I've very fond of the strong version too).